One night, he and his gang bully Miguel and call him Rhea because he has a bottle of Pepto-Bismol in his hand for his grandma and he accidentally thwarts their attempt to buy beer underage at a strip mall mini mart but are attacked by Johnny. Ultimately, Dre returns to the ring and ultimately defeats Cheng, much to Li's anger. In season 3, due to fighting in school, Sam and all the other participants are suspended for two weeks (except for Tory and Robby, who are expelled for their actions against Sam and Miguel, respectively). During her trainings, she torments Tory and the other students through physical and emotional means. In Season 5, Nate continues to train with Miyagi-Do. After Daniel defeats Silver in a one-on-one fight, Kyler abandons Cobra Kai along with the other students. Sadly, this was also Rob Garrison's final role, as he died in 2019. 157 likes. He is portrayed as a childish and unprofessional man who seems to enjoy living off of his cousin's success and setting people up. During the outing with Johnny, Bobby, and Tommy, he expresses his distrust of Kreese to Johnny. when he prays to God for forgiveness before sweep kicking a drunk Johnny in front of his congregation). After Miyagi-Do and Eagle Fang begin training together to take down Cobra Kai, Bert and Nathaniel shake hands before standing together. At the Oaks on the Beach Country Club, she boasts about how Cobra Kai changed her daughter's life for the better. During the fight at Silver's house, Odell and the other senseis pulverize Johnny for a time until he gains the upper hand. While they are talking about this, they are harassed by their high school classmate Elizabeth Anne Rooney, about Amandas vandalism incident during their high school years. Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.93.187.134 ( talk) 04:13, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[ reply] Name in Chinese [ edit] The name of the movie in Chinese (mainland China) is literally Kung Fu Dream most likely. When Miguel takes the podium to make an impassioned speech to convince the council members to let the tournament go on, she goes to his side to provide moral support. Over time, however, she learns to accept him as a teacher. He is a close friend of Daniel and supports his vote on keeping Cobra Kai banned from competing in the All Valley Under-18 Karate Championships, but they are outvoted by Daryl, Ron, and Sue. When Johnny overhears Graham saying that he plans on dumping Carmen after "a few bangs", Johnny attacks him outside the bar. An enraged Johnny immediately sets out to Cobra Kai to confront Kreese, as does Daniel. Mitch (Aedin Mincks) is a student who joins Cobra Kai with Chris in season 2. Sam later finds out from Tory that Silver had rigged their match in Cobra Kai's favor, leaving Sam furious. After Silver is taken down, Robby tries to talk to a saddened Kenny, but the latter requests to be left alone and leaves in shame. He enrolls as a new student at West Valley Middle School, where he is a target of bullying by Anthony LaRusso and his friends. Daniel responds, "Oh, ma, she buries Judy!" He, along with Anthony and his friends get suspended from school for their bullying of Kenny after he gets lured into a trap. He is a bigger student attending the same school as Dre and continually harasses him throughout the film for Dre's interactions with his possible love interest, Mei Ying. Menu. But the moment I knew he was the real deal was his first All Valley. In season 5, he continues to be a part of Cobra Kai. George (Kurt Yue) is an Asian-American member of the All Valley Committee. Cheng ( L Wichng, Zhenwei Wang) is the main villain in The Karate Kid (2010) who is Dre's arch rival. He is the brown belt student who is defeated by Bobby in a sparring match at the dojo. What is the real name of the karate kid? She decides to take a break from Miguel after he returns from Mexico. In season 4, Sam visits Aisha in Santa Barbara about advice on dealing with Tory. Kumiko also gave Daniel a box of love letters from Mr. Miyagi to Yukie that were written after Daniel and Mr. Miyagi left Okinawa. Daryl (Keith Arthur Bolden) is an African-American member of the All Valley Committee and the announcer for the 2018 and 2019 All Valley Under-18 Karate Championships. Sam is later inspired by Aisha to get back into karate training. Odell, in the end, is defeated with his left pinky finger sliced off. Shijia L plays Liang in 2010's The Karate Kid. The Karate Kid (2010) Full Cast & Crew See agents for this cast & crew on IMDbPro Directed by Harald Zwart Writing Credits ( WGA) Cast (in credits order) complete, awaiting verification Produced by Music by James Horner Cinematography by Roger Pratt Film Editing by Joel Negron Casting By PoPing AuYeung Zoe Thompson Production Design by Lil Red (Shane Donovan Lewis) is a Cobra Kai student who then joins Miyagi-Do and Big Red's younger brother. One night at a bar, while having drinks with a Tinder date, Johnny overhears Graham not taking his relationship with Carmen seriously and confronts him to end the relationship. Alongside Kreese and Terry Silver, Ponytail joins Captain Turner's group. According to Carmen Diaz, he was said to have been involved in illegal activities. Afterwards, the gang go into the woods to have a campfire, revealing to Johnny that he was in love with Ali their first year as they had the same homeroom, but put his feelings aside after Johnny started dating Ali, revealing he inspired Tommy to join Cobra Kai. He tries to make advances on her, but she dumps him after seeing him and his gang bully Miguel and his friends in the library. Dre Parker ( Dru Pk, Jaden Smith), like Daniel LaRusso and Julie Pierce, goes into training for self-defense after being bullied. In Season 5, Chris continues to train in Miyagi-Do. He also reveals that Shawn was detained after assaulting a former friend who stole from their parents and attempted to attack him at home, while defending Kenny. During the Sekai Taikai tryouts, Kenny is pitted against Hawk. The girls flee the scene after a drunk Johnny scares them off. She is played by Taraji P. Henson. Kyler lies about what happened to make it sound like Johnny jumped him, prompting Daniel to confront Johnny over the attack and the reformation of the Cobra Kai dojo. He visits his terminally ill friend, Tommy, with Johnny and Jimmy by his side. The two dojos have finalized a table meeting to discuss the details of their merger when Tory and Kyler lead a gang of Cobra Kai students in an attack on the house at the suggestion of Kreese. Because Daniel was unable to continue at that time and Bobby being disqualified, he is the only Cobra Kai member that Daniel doesn't defeat. She eventually comes to a truce with Tory after witnessing her mother's sickness, with Tory admitting she felt like a fraud after learning Silver fixed their match. He is seen at Moon's party with Lil Red cheering Nathaniel, who is in a dance battle with Edwin. According to Chozen, his style used deception and was known for being quite lethal, being able to counter direct attacks and throw opponents off guard. She is unaware of Silver's past in Vietnam or with Cobra Kai. Johnny ultimately decides against it, but Melissa's accidental bump into him causes him to inadvertently send the message. Daniel and Ichiro find out that one of the weights is fake, causing the people of the village to revolt and shame Chozen. Shannon resents both Johnny's absence and his attempts to be present as seen by the fact that Robby goes by his mother's last name as his legal name instead of Johnny's last name. Miguel is also wary of Kreese, noticing inconsistencies in Kreese's stories about his supposed military exploits during the '80s and '90s. Rodney (Grayson Berry) is Tory's apartment complex landlord. Armand and Daniel are the only members of the Encino Oaks Country Club who come from a lower-class background and earned their own money instead of inheriting it. She sits next to Amanda during the All-Valley Under-18 Karate Championships and is mostly supporting her son during the fighting rounds, especially when he defeats Aisha Robinson and also when he faces Miguel Diaz. He also had another memorable quote when Ali is seen walking with Daniel at school; he yells out in anger towards them "It must be 'take a worm for a walk week'". He befriends Daniel and invites him to a beach party. During the junior prom, Miguel and Sam become distracted by Tory and Robby. She is hospitalized and when her parents show up, is only concerned about Miguel's well-being and cries about Miguel's injuries accidentally caused by Robby at the end of the school brawl. Shortly after moving to Beijing, Dre immediately fell in love with a pretty young violinist named Mei Ying. The Raid: Redemption With Jaden Smith, Jackie Chan, Taraji P. Henson, Wenwen Han. During a party at a beach, Miguel attempts to pick a fight with Robby but accidentally hits Sam instead. However, his efforts are undone when Anoush, bitter over being disrespected by Cole, "lets slip" to Louie his boss's plans, and is rewarded by getting his old posting at LaRusso Auto. In contrast to his friends, Dutch cracks a smile after Kreese orders Bobby to put Daniel "out of commission". After Mr. Palmer refuses to help Demetri break up the school fight, Demetri is reluctantly forced to take on Hawk. After Daniel and Johnny jokingly reminisce that their rivalry may have ended earlier if they had simply fought it out, Johnny makes Miguel and Robby fight each other, in which Miguel gains the upper hand and is poised to kick Robby over the balcony in a similar manner to the school fight. These teachings would later be passed down to American soldiers, like Captain George Turner, who in turn passed this philosophy down to John Kreese and Terry Silver during the Vietnam War, starting the chain of events that would lead to the opening of the Cobra Kai dojo and the spread of its philosophy of "strike first, strike hard, no mercy". She initially refuses to help her parents when they decide to reopen Miyagi-Do to combat Kreese. Despite Miguel only having recently recovered from being paralyzed by Robby in the school fight, Kyler is defeated again once Miguel regains moderate abilities in his legs to kick, knocking him out with just three strikes. He promises to do better with Miguel than he did with Robby. In the tournament, he makes it to Round 16, but is defeated by Kyler. Source: www.youtube.com Otro sitio realizado con . When Demetri punches Doug in the face, he grabs Nate and smooshes his face against the glass. Toshio (Joey Miyashima) is one of Chozen's cronies who helps torment Daniel. Several people pitch in to pay for Miguel's surgery, Johnny by stealing and pawning a modern art sculpture from his stepfather, Bobby using proceeds from his church, and Miyagi-Do by organizing a car wash fundraiser, although the Cobra Kais decide to initiate hostilities with the Miyagi-Dos by mugging Nathaniel and stealing the proceeds to donate in their own name in retaliation for Robby's actions against Miguel during the school brawl. After defeating Kyler, Miguel reconciles his friendship with Hawk and the two alongside Demetri decide to stop Sam and Tory from fighting. Soon after, Sato disowns Chozen for refusing to help Daniel rescue a young girl from the typhoon, prompting Sato to go out to assist Daniel himself. She later turns to Amanda for help with her home situation after being confronted by her aunt Kandace and is later able to return to school after Amanda gives her permission, revealing that she has come to empathize with Tory, as Amanda understands the feeling of letting one's emotions guide their actions. Armand initially offers the strip mall but backs out when he suspects Daniel has an ulterior motive for the location. He also imposes a fee on the storage room behind the dojo, even though it was part of the lease Johnny signed. Demetri is confronted by Hawk and his gang at the mall, but they are stopped by Sam and Robby. Later, at the now-abandoned Cobra Kai dojo, Robby tearfully breaks down and admits he's tired of blaming Johnny for his problems and begins reconnecting with him, having become disturbed and horrified after witnessing Kenny pulverizing a helpless Anthony before his final match with Eli because of becoming corrupted by Cobra Kai. Louisa Pierce (Constance Towers) is Julie's grandmother, the wife of the late Jack Pierce, and the mother of Julie's unnamed father. However Jaden Smith was trained by Wu Gang for 3 months before shooting began. A vengeful Kenny then tells Anthony that he will continue to harass him as they begin high school before leaving. She is then told that the school will make an announcement, much to Eli's dismay. In Season 4, Nate is now best friends with Bert and they bully Kenny Payne while on a tour of the high school. Demetri struggles to learn the ways of karate but gets a confidence boost after Daniel tells him that he has the gift of anticipation and intelligence, which slightly increases his confidence. Kyler passes his tryout, beating Mitch in his initiation fight by falling back on his wrestling training, and subsequently replaces Mitch's position in the dojo. In the aftermath, Johnny and Miguel bring their fellow Eagle Fang students to the Miyagi dojo to help train both dojo's students. When Daniel gets into the car he says: "Bye, Judy". Cheyenne Hamidi (Salome Azizi) is Terry Silver's girlfriend at the beginning of Season 4. Actors from The Karate Kid, Rob Garrison (Tommy), Ron Thomas (Bobby Brown), Tony O'Dell (Jimmy), and Randee Heller (Lucille LaRusso) made guest appearances during this season. In season 2, Demetri tries to get him to help break up the school brawl, but refuses after another teacher gets flipped, commenting "they don't pay [him] enough". Dutch also appears with the other Cobra Kais when Kreese assaults Johnny for coming in second place. In Season 2, Tommy is terminally ill from cancer. When the rivalry of the dojos escalates, culminating in an all-out karate war on the first day of school, Sam is also hospitalized with broken ribs and lacerations on her right arm from her fight with Tory. With Robby's tutelage, Kenny goes after Kyler, who has taunted him, earning his spot at the dojo and impressing Kreese. It is unknown if Snake has any martial arts skills, though he seems to have some skills when he tried to land a punch on Mr. Miyagi, which Miyagi later countered during a second confrontation on Miyagi's bonsai shop. Joanne (Rachelle Carson-Begley) is Amanda's mother who lives alone in Ohio. Demetri initially does not get along with Chris due to the latter's past involvement in Hawk's gang, but with encouragement from Daniel after he explains that he was a Cobra Kai member (from The Karate Kid Part III), they both reconcile with each other and learn to work together to lift a rock back up. Zhensu Wu is known for The Karate Kid (2010). Miguel recruits Bert and the other outcasts from Cobra Kai into Johnny's new dojo, Eagle Fang Karate. Anthony refuses to learn karate from his father, finding it boring. When Tom insults Daniel over his billboard that Johnny vandalized, Daniel responds by kicking boba tea out of his hand. When she was in high school, Amanda was arrested for vandalizing her math tutor's car with a baseball bat (while her math tutor was still inside the car) as retribution for breaking up her parents marriage, due to her math tutor's affair with Amandas father (of whom she had a strained relationship with). Wu Ping had a brown Mohawk and a blue gi. Next scene he is at the lunch room, with Frank and Lil Red, trying to find a table. Sometimes, he also has pity for Dre and shows mercy. Now a better man, Chozen displays a great deal of respect for both his uncle and Mr. Miyagi. The Karate Kid Wiki is a FANDOM Movies Community. Later in the season, Yasmine plans a birthday party at the beach, but Cobra Kai ruins her plans by hosting a party there first. Towards the end of the film, Ned demonstrates a degree of morality that indicates he wasn't entirely a bad person. He later agrees to accompany Johnny to see Robby in juvenile detention, but Johnny stands both of them up after he reluctantly stays at the hospital to help Miguel and his family, infuriating Robby and Bobby. She often contacts Shannon about Robby's disciplinary issues, such as constant truancy. As a result, he loses his confidence and briefly quits karate altogether due to being depressed about not having his mohawk to compensate for his cleft lip scar. During the ensuing brawl, Sam defends Tory from Kim Da-eun. Councilperson Roberts (Zele Avradopoulos) is the city councilmember who wanted to ban the All-Valley Under 18 Tournament due to the aftermath of the school brawl. Stingray later beats him up as the crowd watches. After being told to never go near Carmen again, Graham promises to ghost her before Johnny walks away. Their love was so strong that Miyagi had announced that he would break the tradition of arranged marriage and marry Yukie anyway. After witnessing Col. Dugan putting so much pressure onto Ned of severely beating Eric McGowan at the docks, he sympathizes with Ned that he doesn't have to keep going at it. The Announcer (Rick Hurst) is the announcer of the All Valley Under-18 Karate Championships tournament in The Karate Kid Part III. During the ensuing fight, Kyler taunts Hawk over his loss to Kenny, but rebuffs it by calling Kyler out for being a bully. [2] In addition, Jon Hurwitz clarified that the Karate Kid series is not canon, but an Easter Egg from it appears in Season 3, in response to the question about The Karate Kid animated series official status within The Karate Kid universe.[3]. Ultimately, he decides to step down from the match due to his belief that he's no longer fighting for himself, having been pressured by Johnny to return and further straining their relationship. Yasmine (Annalisa Cochrane) is the leader of a clique of popular girls at West Valley High. In the tournament quarterfinals, she shows arrogance toward Sam after scoring a point, inspiring Sam to use her Eagle Fang training instead. As a result, Tory breaks up with him while Kenny angrily ends their friendship. Copy. Mohawk Guy in The Karate Kid. After Demetri roasts Hawk at the party, he is seen with the rest of the Miyagi-dos ready to fight the Cobra Kais right before the police showed up. After defeating several Cobra Kai members, he is defeated by Johnny with three unanswered points in the semi-finals. After the rivalry, Nate and Bert become friends. Jaden Smith. He then joins Miyagi-Do, but Robby Keene is against them joining due to Chris attacking Demetri at the mall, and Robby thinking that the former Cobra Kai students vandalized the Dojo. Realizing how his hatred had consumed him, he made amends by returning ownership of Tomi village back to the villagers and helping them rebuild. Later, Bert leads the Miyagi-Fang students into his home in hopes of gaining evidence to expose Silver's true colors. Robert Swayze "Robby" Keene (Tanner Buchanan) is Johnny's estranged teenage son. After learning of Hector's illegal business ventures, Miguel realizes his true nature and leaves Mexico with Johnny (with whom he reconciles). She is also ostracized by most of the student body with the exception of Moon and the Miyagi-Do students. Chris texts Sam, who brings the Miyagi-Dos to ambush the Cobra Kais in the adjacent laser tag arena. Vidal was mentioned by name in Cobra Kai Season 2 in conversation between Johnny and Tommy. During Kreese's tour of duty in Vietnam, it is revealed in a letter that Betsy is killed in a car accident in Pasadena while visiting her grandmother. Although he does not physically nor verbally intervene, he shows disgust at Kreese. Hector brings Miguel in for a visit to his business. Tory eventually helps the Miyagi-Fang students to expose Silver, coming up with the idea of breaking into the flagship Cobra Kai dojo and hacking into Cobra Kai's server to get the security footage of Silver attacking Stingray. Affilation Sam's combination of offense and defense allows her to hold her own against Tory who is caught by surprise, but hits Sam in the eye, limiting her vision. He then joins Miyagi-Do, but Robby Keene is against them joining due to Chris attacking Demetri at the mall, and Robby thinking that the former Cobra Kai students vandalized the Dojo. When she learns of Kreese's students attacking Sam and breaking Demetri's right arm, Amanda attempts to get Cobra Kai shut down legally, but only receives a restraining order after slapping Kreese with Amanda filing a restraining order against Kreese. Frank (Cameron Markeles) was a Cobra Kai student who later defected to Miyagi-Do Karate. Elizabeth Anne Rooney (Sunny Mabrey), nicknamed Lizzie-Anne, is a high school acquaintance of Jessica Andrews and her cousin Amanda Steiner. This would explain why it appeared that Daniel won their match after only scoring a single point. Frank joins Cobra Kai Dojo along with many others after Miguel's self-defense demonstration in the school cafeteria. He reluctantly calls off the deal, however, when Kreese beats him and his nephews up and subsequently browbeats them into admitting to being hired by the LaRussos. Her friendship with Sam becomes strained when the latter joins Yasmine's clique and Aisha becomes an object of ridicule in school after Yasmine posts a fat shaming video of her during the Halloween dance. In the aftermath, Robby attempts to speak with a depressed Kenny, but Kenny sadly asks to be left alone before leaving in shame. During the first day of school, she befriends a newcomer named Kenny Payne after she diffuses a fight between him and Anthony's friends. His recovery is assumed to be speeding up at this point. An unsympathetic Kreese coldly retorts by telling Johnny to stop crying and ordering him to chant that he is a winner. In the last scene of the season finale, he is shown at Miyagi Do with the Miyagi Do and Eagle Fang Karate Students, as well as former Cobra Kai student Hawk, preparing to train for the next All Valley Tournament. In this version, Han tells Dre that while they were driving in his car, he was distracted by an argument with his wife and they crashed, killing them, and he's guilt-ridden over it. She recounts about how at her new school, she met a girl that gave her a suspicious glare. Carmen opposes violence, and it takes some convincing by Johnny for her to allow Miguel to continue with his training. Ron reveals to the other board members that her husband is a client at his dental office.[6]. Robby has the whole confrontation recorded on his phone, but Daniel asks him not to use the footage to promote Miyagi-Do Karate, reminding him that karate is only for defense and protection. Mikey Miller (Chris Schmidt Jr.) is one of the Cobra Kai students and the second-in-command of Hawk's gang and a supporting antagonist in the second and third season. She is a strong influence in Daniel's life and supports Mr. Miyagi's influence in his life. She is caught in the storm and is dangerously close to the power lines but Daniel comes and saves her. In the aftermath, Tory makes amends with Robby and they kiss. By the middle of Season 1, when Cobra Kai becomes a successful business, Johnny returns all of the money to Sid and vows never to return. Sato felt disgraced and betrayed by Miyagi and challenged him to a fight to save his honor; Miyagi instead left Okinawa the next day, angering Sato further. He is affiliated with Cobra Kai under John Kreese. After Mr. Miyagi defeats Kreese, he leaves Cobra Kai for good. It doesn't seem to have worked out well for her, as she later tells Daniel while working as a waitress she will be on a manager's training program two nights a week and can earn way more than in computers. However, Brucks does not follow Kyler, as Kreese rejects him after Hawk beats him within an inch of his life, an act that also intimidates Kyler. Chozen mentions that Sato had died, and left Chozen all of the Miyagi property. Maeve Christiansen . [1] A 2010 remake however exists in an alternate universe. After a short fight, Demetri outsmarts an overconfident Hawk by kicking him and sending him crashing backwards into a trophy case. ", but he never thought of telling them earlier because he thought it was a normal way for Johnny to act. Robby furiously ends his relationship with Sam by sarcastically telling her that she and Miguel deserve each other and storms off to Kreese's Cobra Kai dojo for help, while Sam is left devastated and questioning how well she knew Robby. In Season 4, she appears in a brief flashback where she discovers that Johnny is hiding mementos of her ex-husband. Like Susan, she does not care much for Daniel at the beginning but is seen cheering for him in the end. He is briefly defeated by Demetri who enjoys taking the bully down, the last of Kyler's former victims to do so. She sees Mike Barnes when he first is introduced to Terry Silver. Her relationship with her father is strained by his meddling in her new friendships, but they reconcile after Sam sees Kyler bully Miguel's friend group and subsequently ends their relationship after he tries to grope her in a movie theater. Julie Pierce (Hilary Swank) is a troubled teenage girl who lost her parents (an unnamed father and Susan) in a car accident, and is now living with her paternal grandmother Louisa Pierce. Despite Johnny's warning that he should avoid the LaRussos, Miguel begins dating Sam. Not long after, Stingray re-enters the Cobra Kai dojo and asks Terry Silver to be on the team once more. He and Anthony bicker over who has the more powerful father. Like Ali Mills in the original film, she and Dre first meet after Dre and his mother move into their apartment in China. Cole is not seen in season 2, but it is mentioned that a lot of Daniel's employees have left the LaRusso dealership for Cole, including Anoush, due to Daniel neglecting his dealerships in his efforts to keep Miyagi-Do afloat, and standing Amanda and Anoush up at an important lunch meeting. She also attends the Junior Prom as well. A vengeful Tory threateningly warns Hawk to watch his back, but Demetri retorts that he's got friends that stand by Hawk's side. This throws Piper off guard, resulting in her being easily defeated. Shannon Keene (Diora Baird) is Johnny's ex-girlfriend and Robby's mother. Samantha reminds him of 'Wax on, Wax off' and also corrects the way he is washing the car and he nods, agreeing on what to do. He is the top student at the Fighting Dragon studio run by Master Li, who teaches his students to treat their enemies and opponents without mercy. In Season 3, Johnny encounters Lynn at a soup kitchen where Robby is doing community service. Lizzie-Anne begins to harass Amanda, reminding her about the high school baseball bat incident, but finally leaves. Later he is defeated by Kreese and earns his respect, even referring to Kreese as "Sensei". 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Chris in Season 4, she does not care much for Daniel at the mall, but finally leaves near! Using the dealership 's inventory database 2010 remake wu ping karate kid real name exists in an alternate universe several Kai... As he died in 2019 fight, Demetri is reluctantly forced to take on Hawk later defected to Karate! 'S girlfriend at the mall, but is seen at Moon 's party with Lil Red, trying to a... Daniel 's life for the better office. [ 6 ] and marry Yukie.! Amends with Robby at this point beats him up as the crowd watches 4, is... Later beats him up as the crowd watches shows arrogance toward Sam after a! Fandom Movies Community board members that her husband is a young girl lives. Aftermath, Johnny encounters Lynn at a soup kitchen where Robby is Community... Flashback where she discovers that Johnny is hiding mementos of her ex-husband ill friend, Tommy is terminally ill cancer... Kai 's favor, leaving Sam furious her daughter 's life for the.. Enraged Johnny immediately sets out to Cobra Kai to confront Kreese, noticing inconsistencies Kreese! To inadvertently send the message she often contacts Shannon about Robby 's tutelage, Kenny is pitted against.... He suspects Daniel has an ulterior motive for the Karate Kid part III Mike when...
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